Gastro-Terrorism

[ellyssian]

I've never had foie gras.

I'm not even sure it would be something I'd like.

But I don't think it should be something forbidden, something removed from the menu, because that would be giving in to the terrorists.

Check out this piece from Incanto Restaurant of San Francisco.

It boggles me that someone who would protest the violence they imagine they'd feel if the technique of gavage was used on them (which doesn't have the same physiological effect on the birds as it would on a human) would indulge in violence and destruction ~ right there, at that point, even had I agreed with them on all other aspects of their purpose, they have lost any possibility of support from me completely.

It is never right to protest violence with violence.

Comments

[patrixa.livejournal.com]

Well, we do not really know how it feels to the goose; I doubt it feels good and it's not too hard to imagine It just might hurt. The forced feeding is really forceful and unnatural -- modern methods are worse than the ancient ways although, I suppose, more efficient.

But I agree that violence is not the solution.

[ellyssian.livejournal.com]

Actually, we do know an awful lot, but we can only imagine by putting ourself in the animal's place, and that results in ignoring the reality of the physiological differences.

And we do know that water fowl have a different physical structure. We do know that they do not have a gag reflex and that the feeding, which lasts for 2-4 seconds to just under one minute (depending on the method) does not restrict breathing. We do know that the process has been shown not to raise stress levels in the birds. We do know that the esophagus of the birds has a natural capability for dilation. We do know that the steatosis of the liver which results from the gavage is a natural occurrence, as the birds gorge themselves prior to migration. We do know that these, like many animals around the world, are raised to be slaughtered; their life expectancy was not all that high, and this process is only used at the end of their life. We do know that if the gavage continues, the bird will most likely die of the overfeeding. We do know that if the gavage is stopped, the steatosis will reverse itself naturally.

I'm not really clear how the modern methods are worse than ancient ones, though. In ancient Egypt, they would moisten the food, grasp the bird around the neck, and push the food down the bird's throats. That seems slightly more traumatic an event, or, at the least, equally so.

[patrixa.livejournal.com]

WE do not know that -- WE have, at most, only read about it. Or have you actually seen it done?

I am not sure any commercial goosery is much concerned with what the bird feels anymore than those raising calves for veal care and, oh chickens too, or any animals that are penned and kept as immobile as possible so muscles remain tender.

Gorging done naturally v. forced may not seem much different, but they are. Forcing is forcing... and done on a timetable by humans is not natural for the goose --- ooohh, imagine how frightened it could be: (rough translation from goose talk which we hear as honking) aaaarrrgghh, no,no, not again!

Do you have the "LaRousse Gastronomique" I once owned and have no idea where it is or even if it was kept -- it's a huge book written a few centuries ago -- I got it years before you were born -- interesting information on nearly everything having to do with food of the time including foie gras.

[ellyssian.livejournal.com]

I have not seen a goose or a duck dissected, so I am taking it on the scientific facts of their biology as reported by others, and, not necessarily, as reported by others interested in promoting foie gras. I used research, not imagination. Your "imagine how frightened it could be" fails to take into account the tests and other research done in this matter, wherein even a party who wanted to stop the technique of gavage admitted that they couldn't conclude that the animals were stressed by the process.

I believe we do have the book, but it is in the cellar with most of our other books, boxed and waiting for the library.

[patrixa.livejournal.com]

RE the book: good -- I'd hate that tome to be lost; I just couldn't remember for I got rid of --oops, gave away so much

RE the goose: Since geese behaviour shows emotions we can easily recognize, e.g., protective actions for their young or for the group; anger/annoyance at folks who do not feed them as they've come to expect; etc., it is not hard for me to imagine they feel pain and/or discomfort... perhaps too many fairy tales impacted me and possibly Frankie Laine's (blues singer of the late '30's-'50's) piece on "Where the Wild Goose Goes" ... yeah, did the party actually check with the goose (no, you know me, I do not mean that nastily but spiritually and literally, for I was taught, oh seems like eons ago, that for all the earth -- living creatures and non living thing -- there is a hierarchy of souls. This was taught in my Roman Catholic Christian Doctrine class at the Lithuanian Church by a Lithuanian priest (Lithuania was one of the last places in Europe to leave Pagan for Christian ways. BTW: I talk to the invading geese here and if I sound angry enough they get in the water for as long as I stay my place. Now if only I could train them to use their own protected-by-law island not 100 feet away for certain functions, we'd both be happier!

[snowy-owlet.livejournal.com]

There are several videos online of gavage: in the ones I saw, the geese ran toward the feeder with their necks stretched out.

[cissa.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I'd read about that, but a video makes it pretty hard to lie about...

I do want to try foie gras someday, I think, but cannot imagine it as a regular part of my diet!

[ellyssian.livejournal.com]

From what I've heard, it's far too rich to be a regular part of any diet.

[cissa.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah- I think fat-wise it's rather like eating a hunk o' butter straight!

I read a book a while back, written by a woman who was the restaurant critic for the NYTimes for several years. Now, foie gras WAS a regular part of her diet- I'd ahve thought she'd get tired of it, but if so, it wasn't in the book, as I recall. FUN book. I was especially impressed by one dual review she did of a restaurant and its food and service when she went incognito vs. when she was recognized. Ether that one or a different one once *removed the dessert*, which had raspberries, and brought another iteration of THE SAME DESSERT but with raspberries that were twice as big, since they figured out she was famous and all. Ye gods. That kind of thing makes me want to not bother going to really "fancy" restaurants, ever; I'm not famous enough to get the fuds and service I'm paying for, it seems.

[ellyssian.livejournal.com]

From what I've seen, evidence testing the claims has either proved inconclusive or has shown it's not as bad as they'd like to believe.

It seems like when the detractors run up against such evidence, they try to attack it from another angle, to prove that it's as wrong as they believe it to be. Once they get it banned, they'll have a legal foothold to go after all meat production.

[patrixa.livejournal.com]

re last paragraph: Well, I hope not. Humans are omnivores and must consume a variety of foods. My hope is that all human food sources are treated respectfully and gratefully as we consume it; we ought to be able to eat the variety required by our bodies.

Sometimes I'm glad I'm old. I think (OMG! I'm REALLY OLD) the world is majorly overpopulated leading to overall craziness. Viciousness, too.

Did you have any idea when you wrote the first piece here, what it's effect would be?

[ellyssian.livejournal.com]

re last paragraph: Well, I hope not.

That was pretty much the point of the article I linked to in the original post: foie gras production is much too small, for too small a crowd, to have any real impact. It's an easy target that they can get meat eaters who aren't foie gras eaters to agree with.

It will, however, give them more political clout down the line.

That's why ~ even if they weren't engaging in violence against chefs and chef's families ~ I would not support them. The fact that they're using violence, however, is what leads me to speak out against them.

Did you read that link in the original?

And yes, it is a controversial issue, so I expected some backlash from it.

[patrixa.livejournal.com]

I did read the article. The Vicious Craziness of said protestors is very sad and also serves notice on why one must be knowledgeable about one's government/political system.

I do not like the forcing or crippling or crowded penning or hormone-feeding of animals raised as food. It is disrespectful. I hate even more that there are those who resort to violence and lies in order to achieve their goals for that too is disrespectful, harmful and wastes resources, not to mention the spiritual harm.

BTW, the article mentioned living on fruit only as food... Sadly I no longer have the book by a Lynne Anderson written many years ago when I was seriously trying to lose weight and also become enlightened. Her premise was that fruit and water were all that one should need to sustain oneself if one seriously wanted to live doing no harm to any other living creature, plant or animal. I cannot recall the title. It was her view of living a very long life spiritually and peacefully. Funny, how I read and re read it often and yet so little remains with me.