Philly Goes Smoke-Free

[ellyssian]

At least in bars and restaurants.

Some background:

• Smoke is bad for you
• I used to smoke
• Stopped when I was diagnosed with asthma
• I tend to get very sick when exposed to too much smoke, and I try to avoid it like the plague

Given that, I don't think there should be a ban on smoking.

If smoking matters that much to that many people, places will become non-smoking by their own decision because of the patrons they wish to attract - and I have no problems with a place deciding to be non-smoking. I have a problem with legislation being used to micro-control us.

I have no problem with taxing - excessively - things that have a dangerous impact on the public health, if the vast majority of the population being taxed votes for it. That's a good way to get government to get their sticky fingers into things, and a good way to exercise democracy.

It may be healthier if we were a society that didn't smoke, but if we are a society legislated nine ways to Sunday, we're not a healthy society.

Comments

[silme.livejournal.com]

Sorry, this is one area where I know we'll disagree. I'm going to cheer that my native city is smoke-free!

Boulder's smoking ban (back in the '90s) was initially voted in by the city council, but the bar owners complained, stating that they'd go out of business. Therefore, the city council put it on the November ballot.

The populace voted for it overwhelmingly. I voted for it. I don't smoke and I never have, except for that time experimenting when I was ten. (Woodlyn Elementary School, near Chester in Delaware County, was a tough place then. ;) I'm severely asthmatic and allergic.

One year later, the bar owners -- the same ones who predicted doom and gloom -- revealed that business had increased: the non-smokers had returned!

Personally, I can't wait for England's smoking ban to take effect next summer, and I'm glad that I will be able to breathe better in my native city the next time I'm there! When I moved here, I was in for culture shock since so many pubs and restaurants here still allow smoking. Gradually, over the six+ years I've been here, more places have developed non-smoking sections, but there still are places I simply can't enter because I will become sick. I couldn't even attend the local Pagan moot because the pub was so smoky -- until this January when they went non-smoking ahead of the law. I had to leave an Eliza Carthy concert early in London back in 2000 because the smoke in the venue was too much for me. (That place has since gone no-smoking.)

[ellyssian.livejournal.com]

Actually, the information you're providing backs up what I was saying: look at the number of places that went non-smoking without being legislated to.

To me, legislating against smoking is a bit like legislating against adults wearing seat belts or legislating against abortion - they are issues that have been argued for the public safety; they are also issues that really don't need to involve laws stopping them; they should be matters of choice.

The choice, if you feel strongly about not going to establishments that allow smoking, is to not go. They lose your money. If enough others avoid the place - and, perhaps, make it known to the owners - they may make that decision without needless legislation trying to regulate every thing we do.

[silme.livejournal.com]

Boulder went non-smoking because the populace wanted it. We asked for it, the city council delivered. Bar owners complained, so it went to the populace. Duh. We voted for it. We'd wanted it in the first place. Without the city council's involvement, those bars that made more money with the smoking ban than without wouldn't have dropped smoking. They were too worried that they'd lose profits.

Unfortunately, in this country, there are so many places that still allow smoking that I've missed out on things. It's a bit different in the US where many places already are non-smoking or have non-smoking sections. Those ideas are still pretty new here. It was culture shock for me. As Ian just reminded me, there was the time we were in holiday in Cornwall looking for a place to have dinner. There were three pubs in the village, and they're all horribly polluted with smoking and no ventilation. We drove around until 9 PM, from village to village, trying to find a place that was open without smoke. Right now, some concerts are non-smoking only if the artist requests it. You think, oh, great, the Gillian Welch show is non-smoking because Welch wants it that way. I can go. Then you get there to discover that when she's not on stage (before it starts, opening act, time between acts), smoking is just fine. People are smoking all around you, and it's fine. :(

Alas, until the government became involved over here, there weren't many options for non-smokers except to stay at home. Remember that you could smoke in post offices here until '79. :(

[silme.livejournal.com]

That said, I wish we didn't have to legislate smoking bans. I also wish we didn't have to legislate gay rights, gay marriage, black rights, women's rights, abortion rights, etc. :(

[ellyssian.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

And, although most places have - at least - a non-smoking section, I do tend to vote with my dollar.

We went to lunch at a local pizza place a month or so ago - very small, maybe 6-10 booths and 6 or so other tables - that we used to go to a lot. It reminded me and my co-worker why we didn't go there - each bite came with a mouthful of smoke.

Good food, but they don't get my money.

[silme.livejournal.com]

Many places here do not have non-smoking sections, alas. Or, the non-smoking sections are small and right next/across from the smoking sections; they remind me of the time when I was late for a flight (when there still was a smoking section on planes), and I was in the last row of non-smoking. I might as well have been in smoking. :(
And without legislating gay rights, black rights, etc., those rights aren't going to exist in many places. *sigh*

I spent 21 years in a city that had had gay rights for years and voted in transgender rights in the late '90s. I sort of forgot, until I left there, how many places even in the US didn't have either of those things. :(

[rainnxonxme.livejournal.com]

Amen.